Discover PROFITABLE Self Storage Investments with Your IRA

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How can self-directed IRAs unlock new pathways for your investment strategy?

Scott welcomes Paul Herbes from Equity Trust to discuss how self-directed IRAs, Roth conversions, and real estate 401(k)s empower investors to take control of their financial future.

They explore timely strategies for navigating today’s market, the potential impacts of AI, trends in industrial real estate, and the art of becoming a successful passive investor.

WHAT TO LISTEN FOR
05:09 – Timely strategies: End-of-year moves to offset capital gains
10:08 – 2025 outlook: Interest rates, tariffs, and industrial real estate growth
15:12 – Roth conversions: Leveraging taxes for long-term growth
25:18 – 1031 exchanges: Debunking myths about its future

GUEST: PAUL HERBES
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Chapters

• 5:09 Timely strategies: End-of-year moves to offset capital gains
• 10:08 2025 outlook: Interest rates, tariffs, and industrial real estate growth
• 15:12 Roth conversions: Leveraging taxes for long-term growth
• 25:18 1031 exchanges: Debunking myths about its future

Transcript

Announcer (00:03):

This is the Self-Storage Podcast with the original Self storage expert, Scott Meyers.

Scott Meyers (00:12):

Hello everyone. Scott Meyers here with the Self-Storage Podcast and I have about Paul Herbes with me in that this week's episode of the Self-Storage Up Podcast from Equity Trust, talking about self-directed IRAs, real estate 4 0 1 Ks, taking back at control of your money to be able to invest it in the assets and the alternative investments that you would like to. So with that, Paul, welcome to the show,

Paul Herbes (00:33):

Scott. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on. Very, very happy to be here today on the Self-Storage podcast. Thank you very much, Scott.

Scott Meyers (00:40):

Yeah, yeah. Looking forward to this. So with somebody who has got their ear to the ground is literally having these conversations all day. I've been looking forward to jumping into this conversation, but first we've given you the folks a little bit of a background in your bio here. But if you would, why don't you fill in the gaps and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you get to the place and what you do on a regular basis, on a daily basis at Equity Trust.

Paul Herbes (00:59):

Yeah, I would absolutely love to. Scott. So my name here is Paul Herbes. I formerly was an employee of actual Midland Trust who was acquired here in August of 2023. So that's actually how I got into my seat today, was formerly an employee of Midland Trust who had gotten acquired. A little bit about that acquisition had occurred in August, 2023, and there were a few different prongs into why that acquisition I think had occurred. One being equity's desire to horizontally integrate into deferring capital gains taxes. Midland Trust was a qualified intermediary, so that was certainly something that had appetized equity in regards to that acquisition. And another being our relationship with those who are capital raising in the real estate world and those who are looking to invest in the real estate world. We were actually rated by Forbes advisor as being the best custodian to work with when it comes to private equity and most of our investors in that realm investing into syndications and the like. So a little bit about how I got here today from that acquisition standpoint, a little bit more about Equity Trust company, been around a while, Scott, so a little bit over 50 years. So since 74 we've been helping clients. So very happy to arrive in the seat I have today and excited to continue to help educate people and unlock the world of self-directed investing.

Scott Meyers (02:22):

Well, I've known a number of folks within the organization that have been at the helm since the beginning in the circles that I've been in. And we continue to just once again, just be nothing but impressed with and I'm thankful for the folks over at Equity Trust for working with our folks that are investing in our investments. You guys just make it easy. You certainly know what you're doing because you've been around for 50 years and we're just thankful for that partnership. As you know, not all intermediaries are created equal. So myself and my staff are thankful.

Paul Herbes (02:51):

My appreciation, Scott, that's exactly what we like to hear. And what we desire to do is to help investors go ahead and self-direct their assets, what they feel comfortable in and really Into investment that they believe in rather than have them be invested into some stuffy hedge room in New York City where they might be invested in the deal where they might not know what's going on. I mean, God, there is an investor I worked with last year who was actually invested in an international real estate fund in one of these mutual funds and I go to ask him, I say, what countries are you invested into? And he said, Paul, that's a great question. I have no idea. So he gets on the horn with his financial advisor and he goes, Hey, can you tell me where this international real estate fund's focused? And he had no answers, absolutely no answers on what country and quickest could be. He rolled it over and invested into a syndication deal where he knew his dollars were being put to work.

Scott Meyers (03:47):

Yeah. Well I think at the end of the day we've seen enough if you've been investing for a little while, and if you're not getting the returns that have been either promised or projected over the years, investors become a little skeptical or they become skeptics and then they say, alright, enough enough. I'm just going to dig in and I'm going to direct my money where to go and I'm going to meet with the folks and I want to see, touch and feel this asset that I'm investing in and not investing in vapor up on Wall Street that can go away in the big casino there. So yeah, this is the realm that I've been investing in for years ever since I read Rich Dad, poor Dad and just, I never wanted to be beholden to the stock market anymore and it just made sense. I can meet with that manager of my money every day because I look him in the mirror and it's real easy to find out exactly what's going on and whether somebody's cooking the books or not.

(04:36):

So Paul, I want to talk situationally here we are coming into the end of the year at the time this podcast is airing, we're at the end of 2024. Some folks are making some moves, they're looking for a depreciation, they're looking to offset capital gains. What else? The conversations that you're having right now, and I know you can't give advice, but the guidance and the education that you're giving folks as to what they can and what they should be doing right now. Speak a little bit into the timeliness as we're heading into next year, as to what folks, the questions that are asking and some of the things discussions that you're having right now.

Paul Herbes (05:09):

I would absolutely love to Scott. So one of the conversations that's top of mind that I've been having with investors recently is compounding interest and really making those contributions when you can rather than when you have to. Right? I think there's a clear distinction then in regards to those investors that do contribute early. I mean, you're going to allow yourself much more time to have that compounding interest in your alternative investments. And then something that I wanted to clarify as well is when they can make those contributions through. I know there's a misconception in our industry that when December 31st happens and at the end of the year that well, that's the time that you missed your chance to make your contribution and that is simply not the case. You're able to go ahead and make that contribution up until April 15th of that following. So even if you haven't contributed yet today, maybe it's something that has kind of slipped past you. If you're like me, Scott, and the holidays come around with the two kids I have mean I'm run ragged. So a great time to contribute can always be the start of that next year as well because you're going to have up until April 15th to go ahead and make it. So definitely something that a lot of our investors are going to continue to do.

Scott Meyers (06:22):

Well. So along those same lines, we have a new administration coming in and with that administration we're seeing that there are going to be some changes being made and I don't want to speculate or talk about what may be speculation and certainly not every president that comes in makes good on all of the promises, projections or does what they say they're going to do ahead of time. But from the best that you can see and from what you can tell, what should an investor be looking at or what do you expect to come down the pike that is going to change the way that people invest passively or actively? What do you see coming down the pike that we need to be aware of maybe that you're seeing that the rest of us aren't?

Paul Herbes (07:02):

Great question, Scott. Really great question. So just in regards to the election, I mean heading up into it, there was a lot of uncertainty and so what do investors do and uncertain times happen, they sit on dry powder. I mean that's really what I saw leading up to the election. Immediately following the election, I saw a lot of investors get off the sidelines and I saw a lot of dry powder actually change hands towards the end of the month of November and even heading into the beginning of December here we've seen a lot of activity from a transaction standpoint, not only with those investors who are investing in syndications, but those who are looking to sell and buy properties as well. On our qualified intermediary side too. We are seeing a lot of people now that the election has passed, people are certain of the results whether or not don't want to necessarily get into the political aisles, but whether or not they agree or what have you, that doesn't necessarily matter, but they have certainty now they know who's going to be in office and

Scott Meyers (07:58):

We know what the rules are, the game now we know how to play.

Paul Herbes (08:01):

That's exactly right, Scott. So what I've seen just in regards to some current policies and some policies, we're going to see changes just in regards to tariffs, right? I mean we're really going to see tariffs go up I think, or at least they're speculated to increase in the coming years. So I do think that's something that could affect inflation, which therefore could affect the 10 year treasury bond, which inflect our interest rates. So I think we're going to see stickier rates for the next six to 12 months. I've met with some local lenders here both on the commercial and residential side of things in the past weeks, and I think that banks have already priced in those cuts, which we saw a little bit here this past year with those 50 basis points that were recently cut. But I do think that interest rate may be a little sticky for the next six months, but I think after six months we're going to see a big change there. And after that point I think we will start trending down more systematically.

Scott Meyers (09:03):

So if anything, if I'm reading the tea leaves, that is if we're holding onto property, those of us, like myself, we're property investors and we hold for a time period in which interest rates go down and therefore cap rates go down and then we sell when they're at the valley. We've anticipated basically the same thing. We had expected that maybe by Q2 and Q3 that we would start to be able to see some of that, but I'm seeing the exact same things that you are in which that may be delayed a little bit. The good news is, as you just mentioned, we're already seeing consumer confidence go up and that also partly is over into investor confidence and we are seeing some transactions that are getting to occur right now. And I do feel maybe, well, I'm an optimist by nature anyways. It's not always good to be an optimist when it comes to investing in all instances, but I do feel that the activity and the transaction value is going to be maybe a little bit heavier than perhaps some of my cohorts are looking at it and thinking as we head into 2024, just because of the things that you mentioned, I think that there seems to be a general optimism period.

(10:08):

And again, I think a lot of that is just because the unknowns have been removed. We know for the most part what things are going to look like. And even with tariffs, if it's not viewed as good news essentially in the very beginning of this year and we'll have to pay for it, just the fact of knowing and the fact that we are going to be eventually going down, I think it's going to really begin to release the floodgates a little bit. How would you approach that?

Paul Herbes (10:28):

I would approach it in regards to investing. I would approach it early and often, so there's no time to invest like a present, just speaking anecdotally here, right? Because what happens when interest rates lower? What are prices going to, and I think prices will continue to rise, right? I mean it's no secret that America is in a shortage of property, whether it be housing, whether it be storage, there's a shortage and there's a large shortage in America. And no, I definitely think there's going to be a need there that a lot of investors are going to step up and solve.

Scott Meyers (11:08):

Yeah, workforce housing has been that one piece, affordable housing, however you want to look at it has continued to be a shortage and with interest rates as high as they were, the builders just haven't been able to to get things to pencil and to be able to get the activity level has been there, and also to get the holding costs to be able to pencil with the increased cost and the cost of capital. So once that comes down, I think we're going to see an opening of that, but the bigger opportunity that we see, because not every problem is solved with a hammer. Not everything looks like a nail just because we're only in self storage. But when I look across the broader spectrum of industrial real estate and that entire sector with the tariffs, it's going to come a more aggressive surge of companies are going to be coming back to the us not only just the tariffs, but the energy crisis that we're seeing in Europe, Germany specifically, and the population challenges in China

(12:03):

And quality issues in many of these other areas. I believe that that is going to cause a huge increase and we're already seeing it in terms of the need for industrial space and also across the border. Mexico is now becoming, they're going to ramp up operations even if there is a tariff. We're seeing the tech sector boom in Guadalajara and the areas where the border crossings where there are large amounts of goods coming back, we're seeing the industrial sectors and these industrial parks just absolutely come popping up like daisies and growing very quickly. So I am very anxious to see what our sector, my sector, we're just a subset of that in self storage it looks like. But we're already somewhat preparing for that in our developments and adding a few units that are a little larger for the last mile with Amazon and the big push there as well. But I believe that industrial is going to be a sector that's going to shine in 2025 and for years to come.

Paul Herbes (13:00):

I completely agree, Scott, and I know you mentioned Amazon, where I'm located here in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, they recently built a new warehouse and employed many, many different people here, even in our own communities. So completely agree with you, Scott. I think that's only going to trend in the right direction.

Scott Meyers (13:15):

Yeah. What other trends are you seeing right now? And maybe again, I know you don't give advice Paul, but there's, you just buy the fact that there's a whole lot of folks that may be calling and asking about this that they may be hearing because you have your ear to the ground or the phone. From that standpoint, what are some of the other trends or things that maybe are worthy of looking into, not necessarily to invest in, but just to be aware of right now, what are you seeing?

Paul Herbes (13:39):

Yeah, so ai, I think that is a big trend in itself is how people are integrating this into their systems and even their own capital raises. I mean, I've

(13:52):

Worked with quite a few different partners who have really implemented it into their business model. And it amazes me. It amazes me the technology that's out there and how that's going to change the real estate sector in the coming years, whether it be through underwriting or whether it be through capital raising. I'm excited to see how that's going to continue to develop and change in the next few years. In regards to trends that are investors are to pointing, Scott, as we head into this coming year, Roth conversions are something that I've really seen pick up here in the past couple of months. And people even looking to from time discount a Roth conversion where they'll do what's known as an in-kind Roth conversion, they'll take that alternative asset they have when they feel like it's a down market and actually go ahead pay the taxes on it now with the logic and hoping that that investment will swelter in size in the coming years as the market rebounds. So That is a strategy I've seen being used is people going ahead paying the tax on that seed capital and then going ahead turn around and investing it into private equity and more volatile investments that could expect greater returns than what the standard market could offer.

Scott Meyers (15:12):

We've had an increased awareness that I have been pushing on our organization to look at the return on equity. So in other words, the money that has been put to bed, if you will. So our equity goes and the principle goes to sits somewhere and it earns money for us and it builds, and then is the engine that allows that growth, but most of those profits that are taken on the back end of our investments. And so not only does that equity go to bed for a little while and we can't utilize it, but also it grows and we can't tap into that. And so we sell as well. And so we've been looking at that, the velocity of money and doing a deeper dive into making sure that we've got our money working for itself at all times and as quickly as we can now refinance, we're looking at that, whereas we may have delayed that in the past, but now we're trying to grab ahold of that equity that is not only in place there to sit for a little while, but also as it's grown, how do we get our hands on that because we know how to redeploy it and we know how to make money on it.

(16:10):

And so for the same reason that people are just saying, well, I need access to that equity if it means I got to pay taxes on it, I know how to make money with it, so I want my money back so that I can go out and redeploy it. And I think the wise investor is going to take a look at that because the cost or the lost cost that just sitting out idle is even greater than what people I think realize.

Paul Herbes (16:32):

No, you make a great point, Scott, and certainly one that I've heard by many, many different people that I've partnered with is how can I get access to this? How can I refinance in a timely manner so that I can redeploy as quickly as possible? Because going ahead and leveraging that capital is absolutely crucial to those investor returns and to scaling your enterprise to going ahead and in getting self storage, investing to where you envision it to be, and obviously getting that capital working. Never want to sit on idle hands when it comes to capital.

Scott Meyers (17:12):

No. Well then getting ahold of it and being efficient with it is the next piece and making the right moves. And so you touched on ai. Obviously there isn't a conversation you have in business right now that doesn't ultimately lead to either Bitcoin or ai. So let's talk about AI right now and not Bitcoin. Tell me how equity trust is using AI if you are right now or some of the trends that you're either looking into or deploying currently.

Paul Herbes (17:38):

Yeah, we're currently leveraging it from a marketing standpoint, Scott. So definitely an area where we're integrating AI to go ahead and have more conversations, have more conversations with capital raises to ensure that at the end of the day that there is a self-directed IRA in every home in America. And to

(17:56):

Ensure it is a way where these investors can diversify their funds so that they aren't all so they don't have all their eggs in one basket and those traditional investments and so that the common investor is well diversified and his hedge against the public market in case anything were to happen like in years past. But other ways we leverage ai, I leverage AI Scout on a personal basis on a daily basis. So leveraging chat GPT is something that I certainly implement in my day-to-day activities, whether it's going ahead and revising an email or whether it's going ahead and figuring out the best way to target an issue or problem I'm facing at that given moment.

Scott Meyers (18:36):

Yeah, I am as well. And along the same lines that you just mentioned, we are doing, I think, deploying the same strategies and that is how long of a conversation, how far can we go with a potential client or somebody who calls in or begins to chat with us to get the information that they need. And I'm not talking about just the basics, when's your next webinar? What's this or that? But truly having an engaging in those conversations and having not just a 10 bullet point FAQ that a chat bot has memorized to give a canned answer to, but that now has a memory bank because it talks things and acts a little bit more like a member of our organization because it has received input and training from us to maybe go to expand that FAQ to the first 150 questions, responses and conversations they may have with somebody before they either have a need to or want to engage with somebody at the next level. Those are the boundaries that we're exploring right now.

Paul Herbes (19:37):

It's awesome. That's terrific, Scott. And while a fan of ai, while I am a fan of technology, I know one thing for certain and that the technology will never beat a human touch, Scott, and it'll never beat a personal relationship when it comes to investing and directing those investments

Scott Meyers (19:56):

A hundred percent because I think that we've come full circle now, whereas we have an education and information business and this podcast is even a part of that. And so there's a whole lot of folks that can go research and you can find some basic information, but when it comes to investing in self storage or investing in real estate on your end, when they're looking for guidance now, they're so inundated with so much information out there. If somebody does, they want the Sherpa to guide him up the mountain and be able to navigate through what is a mountain of BS versus what is the truth and what is the best for me personally. And AI can't do that because AI doesn't care. It doesn't care, and it doesn't care what the intrinsic value of an investment is to that person on the other end of the phone or on the other end of the chat because they can't know them personally or be able to do that. And so there's always going to be a place for basic information to be shared in a more efficient manner, but truly deep meaningful relationships and guiding somebody in their own personal situation. Yeah, no AI is going to replace that in my opinion.

Paul Herbes (20:54):

Completely agree. And even in utilizing AI in my own daily activities, I mean it'll even pull information that sometime inaccurate. So it'll do a great job of pulling the information and going ahead and getting me access to it.

(21:07):

But Yeah, not always a mountain of truth.

Scott Meyers (21:10):

Yeah, yeah. Well, Paul, as we wind down our time here together, I wanted to touch on whether it's you personally as to what is exciting you about 2025, and it may be the same as what you are guiding maybe some of your investors out to look into or keep an eye on. So what's got you excited as we head into the next year?

Paul Herbes (21:32):

Yeah, what's got me excited, Scott is keeping my eye on those rates as we head into 2025. So something that's always top of mind for me is gauging where those rates are and as it directly affects those investors that are going ahead investing with me. I mean, whether that's a syndication or whether those are people who are looking for qualified intermediary to go ahead and reinvest into real estate, that's certainly something top of mind. So I am very excited. I do believe interest rates will continue to climb down as we head into 2025. I do believe that as we hit into the beginning of the third quarter, I think we're going to see a lot of transaction volume increase across all real estate sectors. And I do believe that we're going to see a great market return.

Scott Meyers (22:15):

So I've invested in investment grade wine in the past and we invested in cars and we watch the auctions. I've been to Bear Jackson and things like that. I know there's ways that people can invest in a fund, car sharing fund and things like that are you involved in? And those seem to do well no matter what, but especially as we head into what may be a downturn for a little while, the rush to hard assets away from Wall Street brings not only real estate, but folks that are looking at things of that nature. Are you guiding or talking to your folks about that, whether it be precious metals, wine, collectibles, art, anything else along those lines that you deal with?

Paul Herbes (22:50):

So we wouldn't necessarily be guiding them towards the investments, Scott. Our investors certainly invest into a wide plethora of assets, whether that be cryptocurrency or any other asset, but it wouldn't be one where we would necessarily connect the dots and actually introduce them to that investment opportunity.

Scott Meyers (23:10):

Are you having conversations with folks that are looking to do that? And if you are, is it they've got a knowledge of it and they're just coming to you for just the basics of how do I get my money and how do I go in this direction?

Paul Herbes (23:21):

That's right. So typically they have a partner who's going to bring them to the danco. So typically they'll be referred over by a general partner or by a fund manager. Their will from occasion be the rare one off where it is typically a more investor centered person, whether they have their own business or what have you that are looking to invest directly in cryptocurrency. That is something we can offer and definitely something we can take care of.

Scott Meyers (23:44):

Okay. So we've also heard that there may be a few things on the chopping block with regards to some tax advantages that are afforded to us in real estate. You know what I'm talking about and leading towards 10 31, which you have a lot of conversations about. So can you speak to that or anything else that you feel or want to weigh in on that may come a threat to the way that we're investing right now as we head into the next year?

Paul Herbes (24:05):

Yeah, so the attack on 10 31 exchanges, Scott is certainly something I could speak to. So every few years, it's certainly something that seems to find its way up on the chopping block and that's the existence of 10 31 exchanges. Do I think it's going anywhere anytime soon? I personally certainly do not. I think it's something that has been a tax loophole for many, many years, for decades, and it will continue to be for the foreseeable future. It is a loophole that the current administration was trying to so shut, but I do believe there's way too much money in our real estate arena and certainly within the United States as it comes to avoiding those taxes and deferring capital gains taxes that we're not going to see it go anywhere here in the years to come.

Scott Meyers (24:52):

Well, I would certainly hope not as well, and you have to scratch your head when you look at some pretty outlandish claims like that. It seems like it is more for shock value than anything because it doesn't seem to really benefit the market as a whole and it certainly wouldn't benefit the candidates. So I always take a look at those things and just think we're trying to grab some headlines here. Is this something a real threat? But until my advisors tell me otherwise, we can continue down the path as if

Paul Herbes (25:18):

It's pre advertising. Scott, it's great for us that people are able to discover what's a 10 31 exchange and why are they trying to get rid of this and why don't they want me doing this again? And it's great publicity and we'll take it.

Scott Meyers (25:33):

Sure. So Paul, what makes a good passive investor? On our end, we teach people how to invest actively, and we also bring in limited partners of people who invest passively in our projects as well. And sometimes they learn and they're successful on the active side and they take some of the chips off the table, invest passively. And some of our folks invest passively and they do very well, and they decide, Hey, I want a bigger check. I want a bigger return. And so I'm going to learn how to do this actively. But more specifically on the passive side, we're finding a whole lot of folks gravitating towards that. The returns are strong, less risk, but outside of the usual vetting sponsors. And what do you feel is more unlike the genetic makeup, if you would, of a good passive investor? What do they need to do or emulate to become really good?

Paul Herbes (26:20):

Great question, Scott. The first trait I would have that investor have, if I was creating them with these traits and making the absolute most perfect one, I would put in a huge dash of curiosity. They need to be curious. So they need to be asking the right questions. If they don't know the questions to be asking, they need to be asking questions so they can find the questions that they need to be asking. I Mean, that's going to be the first thing by far that's going to separate them from any other investor is are they doing their homework? Are they genuinely curious? Do they really want to find that question? And do they really understand? Because that curiosity is going to lead to understanding, which is going to give them control of their financial future. It's going to let them know what their investment plan should be, why they're investing in the deal they're investing into. I think that's important. Once when they start asking those questions, they're going to be able to get the why, which is really going to help their understanding and comprehension after the trade of being curious and investor who's persistent, Who'sPersistent to continue their education, to continue discovering new tools and resources they could be using in their financial journey and path. And then one who's persistent and in persistent finding a good mentor. I mean, I think that's a really important piece of it, Scott, is Ensuring That they are a part of a training or regimen or program and that they have direction. Because that's a big part of it for a lot of investors that I speak to is they need that direction and they need that guidance, Scott, because otherwise they'll never start their true investment journey if they don't have that structure. I think that's important too.

Scott Meyers (28:02):

Yeah, I would agree. I'm very thankful for many of our passive investors that come to us, and even though we put out a lot of educational information on just that, how to become a better passive investor, going through the whole list of understanding the asset class, looking at the trends, what's going on, and really understanding the underwriting, they need to understand the financials to see whether this indicator truly knows what they're talking about and can stress test a deal even beyond what is just presented to them. And it also surprises me at times that these folks don't know how to do some basic underwriting or really don't understand the financial metrics and the returns metrics before they invest. And again, I'm thankful they invest with us because they put their faith in their trust in us, and our track record speaks for itself. We've been around for a while, but when we invite folks to come out and kick the tires, come look at the site during our due diligence, we're going to be out there on them February the 21st, and any of you that want to come along, we're going to be out there at four o'clock in the afternoon until six, and we'll take you to dinner and ask questions.

(29:01):

And crickets. We do this on every project, and I'm surprised that these folks don't always come. And I know it's not their job, it's not the role, they're not active. But to your point, if this is how you're going to replace your active income with passive income and invest a significant amount, 50,000, a million, 2 million over the course of several years, I would just be, I'm surprised that more people don't take the time to educate themselves on the asset class to the degree that our active investors do, or at least close to it.

Paul Herbes (29:33):

I completely agree, Scott. A lot of syndicators can make a deal look great on paper, but once you mentioned once you start stress testing it once, when you start thinking outside of the box as a passive investor, well what if this happens? What if this were to occur, then this, then that. And being able to have a general understanding, Scott, where they can ask those questions, will give them more confidence too, and it should give them more confidence in the deal. If they're able to understand and ask those questions, they should feel much better about getting invested into it.

Scott Meyers (30:07):

Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Well, Paul, once again, I want to thank you for your time today to be able to spend some time with Storage Nation and for those that are looking to either already passive investing or looking to invest passively, help them to be a little bit better at that. And so with that, what has been maybe the best piece of advice that you've ever been given with regards though to investing could be passively or actively that you carry with you,

Paul Herbes (30:32):

Invest early, invest often. I think that would be the best advice I've ever received when it comes to past investing, because compounding interest And Compounding interest is a very real thing, and so are those returns. So that would be the best advice I would give to any first time investor who is unsure or sitting on the fence

Scott Meyers (30:53):

At every one of our events. Towards the end, the slide comes up that says The time is now. And that's because it is, and it has been for the past 20 years that we've been teaching people about how to invest actively and passively in self storage. There is no better time people want to wait or complain about interest rates. Well, we know all the folks that made a whole lot of money in real estate when interest rates were 18% as well as when it was 4%. And during a war going on somewhere in some part of the world and during all these other times and all these folks made money and they did it because of one thing, it's because they invested early and they didn't sit on the sidelines. So it can be done. So agree a hundred percent. Well, Paul, look forward to having you back. We will look to bring you back in perhaps, hopefully before the end of next year again, but just to give your take on what's going on in the market and how people can once again become a better passive investor. But until then, what is the best way for them to be able to get in touch with you and with equity trust?

Paul Herbes (31:49):

Yeah, the best way to get ahold of me, Scott, is going to be to reach out to me. You can reach out to my direct line via call or text. That's going to be at 6 0 5 7 9 9 8 6 2 0, or you can reach out to me via email as well at P.Herbes@trustetc.com

Scott Meyers (32:11):

Perfect. Alright, Paul, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. Looking forward to having you back again very soon. In the meantime, enjoy your Christmas and have a happy New Year. Take care.

Paul Herbes (32:21):

 Merry Christmas, Scott. Thanks.

Scott Meyers (32:23):

Thanks.

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